Packers Huddle

As the proposal is written, all these iconic plays would now be ruled a penalty. (Click to view thread)

I get it, the tush push sucks. So ban it but use language that specifically bans the tush push, not great football plays that have an entire offense fighting for the extra yards.

I wouldn't be opposed to that play being lumped in and not just because it's the Vikings. Go back to how it was ruled before 2006.

The funny argument is that this proposal will destroy football or takes the best parts out of football... This was the rule from 1920 until 2005...

go pak go wrote: ↑

20 May 2025 13:52

Reading on other team fan forums, it does seem like overall there is mostly support to ban the tush push and go back to pre-2005 rules.

To me it’s a boring play, it’s an ugly play, and it’s impossible to get the call right because it’s a matter of quarters of an inch in a situation where you can’t see the ball to get the call right anyway.

Typically you don’t want something to be so wildly successful that it’s almost automatic in a sport unless it’s been in reaction to a penalty like free throws and penalty shots in other sports.

This conversation should have been had decades ago honestly. It was always crazy to me that more teams didn’t QBS sneak on inches to go. I cringed every time I saw a coach do a normal handoff on inches or 1 to go. Another reason why i believe the NFL coaches and GMs are probably smart in a lot of situations but overall have a level of autism my brain can’t comprehend.

APB wrote: ↑

20 May 2025 18:59

As the proposal is written, all these iconic plays would now be ruled a penalty. (Click to view thread)

I get it, the tush push sucks. So ban it but use language that specifically bans the tush push, not great football plays that have an entire offense fighting for the extra yards.

I'm good with it. Defenders can't even tackle anymore. Can't hit this way, can't hit that way, not too high now, not too low either, you're hanging off his back, can't drag him down that way blah, blah, blah. The least the offense can do is gain their own yards as a ball carrier. Being carried by another offensive guy seems kind of like cheating if you ask me.

and much like the the old adage of what's the difference between porn and art, you'll know it when you see it, I think there is a lot of truth in that, that applies to this. and lining up two or 3 ball carrier carriers behind the QB to push him over a pile at the point of contact is about as easy to see as they make it.

lupedafiasco wrote: ↑

20 May 2025 21:04

go pak go wrote: ↑

20 May 2025 13:52

Reading on other team fan forums, it does seem like overall there is mostly support to ban the tush push and go back to pre-2005 rules.

To me it’s a boring play, it’s an ugly play, and it’s impossible to get the call right because it’s a matter of quarters of an inch in a situation where you can’t see the ball to get the call right anyway.

Typically you don’t want something to be so wildly successful that it’s almost automatic in a sport unless it’s been in reaction to a penalty like free throws and penalty shots in other sports.

This conversation should have been had decades ago honestly. It was always crazy to me that more teams didn’t QBS sneak on inches to go. I cringed every time I saw a coach do a normal handoff on inches or 1 to go. Another reason why i believe the NFL coaches and GMs are probably smart in a lot of situations but overall have a level of autism my brain can’t comprehend.

I don't think too many have a problem with the QB sneak, and it doesn't work every time because you can win at the line and stop the QB. Happens all the time. But with the tush push, you can win at the line and then 2 guys that are supposed to be in routes or running out fakes or actually carrying the ball, then get to put their hands right on the stopped dead QB and push him over the pile of bodies because he isn't going to touch the ground for a while. There's too many bodies.

Defenses have to defend the entire field. The Eagles have taken advantage of the rule to in a way never seen before and in a manner I'm sure creators of the game never wanted to be a part, hence the original rules.

It's one thing to stop 2-3 olinemen at the point of attack with 2 DL and a LB or 2. It's another to have 2-3 olinemen all in the neutral zone to start, and then have to win there and win agains the QB being pushed by 2-3 RB's or TE's over a road of bodies with those same defenders at the point of attack. It has been, is and will continue to be a &%$@ play that attacks the integrity of the game of football for as long as they continue to allow it.

musclestang wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 05:12

APB wrote: ↑

20 May 2025 18:59

As the proposal is written, all these iconic plays would now be ruled a penalty. (Click to view thread)

I get it, the tush push sucks. So ban it but use language that specifically bans the tush push, not great football plays that have an entire offense fighting for the extra yards.

I'm good with it. Defenders can't even tackle anymore. Can't hit this way, can't hit that way, not too high now, not too low either, you're hanging off his back, can't drag him down that way blah, blah, blah. The least the offense can do is gain their own yards as a ball carrier. Being carried by another offensive guy seems kind of like cheating if you ask me.

and much like the the old adage of what's the difference between porn and art, you'll know it when you see it, I think there is a lot of truth in that, that applies to this. and lining up two or 3 ball carrier carriers behind the QB to push him over a pile at the point of contact is about as easy to see as they make it.

Spot on , the rule against assisting the ball carrier worked splendidly for a 100 years, and the assists are easy to see, it's a cop out for the league to say it is to hard for officials to call, it's not as though they get every called penalty perfect now anyway.

Sorry Eddie, this entire play is negated as illegal because you got an assist the last 0.5 yards - a shove you didn't even need - that draws a flag. Play is wiped from the books and results in a 10 yd penalty by proposed new/old rule.

Assist type actions are an inevitable and instinctual part of football plays whether it's intentional or a result of an intended block of a defender that misses it's target. There's a reason the rule was changed in 2005. It made sense. The fact Philly has bastardized the rule change doesn't change that.

As I've said, figure out a way to rewrite the rule to eliminate plays like the tush push, not football plays like this.

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:02

As I've said, figure out a way to rewrite the rule to eliminate plays like the tush push, not football plays like this.

"It is illegal to assist the runner who takes the snap from under center."

The end.

NCF wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:04

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:02

As I've said, figure out a way to rewrite the rule to eliminate plays like the tush push, not football plays like this.

"It is illegal to assist the runner who takes the snap from under center."

The end.

Yep, short, sweet, and to the point.

NCF wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:04

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:02

As I've said, figure out a way to rewrite the rule to eliminate plays like the tush push, not football plays like this.

"It is illegal to assist the runner who takes the snap from under center."

The end.

That would probably do it too.

I also think just saying behind the LOS works too. Nobody should be lining pushers up behind a ball carrier. There should be no "instinctual football move" to aid someone when your blockers should be in front of you at this point, unless of course your intent is to aid the runner, which should be flagged.

I think even down field you can tell the difference between a quick reaction and a concerted effort. I see Kuhn's "aiding" of Cobb on his first punt return, to me, those are instinctual, quick and move on, vs seek out the runner, get behind, grab and push until the play is over type plays.

But if they change nothing else, this pushing ball carriers at the LOS needs to end, and I don't care if they call penalties when they shouldn't be. Every benefit is to the offense with rules and forward progress. Allowing this is bologna. Unless of course you want to keep it live, get rid of forward progress and allow the defense to pick him up and run him back and the play isn't over until he's down.

NCF wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:04

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:02

As I've said, figure out a way to rewrite the rule to eliminate plays like the tush push, not football plays like this.

"It is illegal to assist the runner who takes the snap from under center."

The end.

You've missed your calling as the pragmatic voice of the NFL's rule making office.

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:02

Sorry Eddie, this entire play is negated as illegal because you got an assist the last 0.5 yards - a shove you didn't even need - that draws a flag. Play is wiped from the books and results in a 10 yd penalty by proposed new/old rule.

81 did not attempt to block for Lacy, that was a concentrated effort to push him past the goal line, therefore illegal, the instinctive part to do it is because officiating turns a blind eye to it for years.

instead of 10 yrd penalty on down field plays the ball should/maybe be spotted at point of foul, and possibly loss of down.

my main concern though, is tush push, or assisting the ball carrier prior to los

Yoop wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:49

81 did not attempt to block for Lacy, that was a concentrated effort to push him past the goal line, therefore illegal, the instinctive part to do it is because officiating turns a blind eye to it for years.

I never said he (Quarles) did attempt the block.

And that's the point. It's an instinctive play and part of team football. The offensive unit is trying to score points.

Also my main concern continues to be to focus a rule change on the tush push play, not the football plays that inevitably happen as a part of the natural progression of a play.

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:56

Yoop wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 08:49

81 did not attempt to block for Lacy, that was a concentrated effort to push him past the goal line, therefore illegal, the instinctive part to do it is because officiating turns a blind eye to it for years.

I never said he (Quarles) did attempt the block.

And that's the point. It's an instinctive play and part of team football. The offensive unit is trying to score points.

Also my main concern continues to be to focus a rule change on the tush push play, not the football plays that inevitably happen as a part of the natural progression of a play.

well that was, or used to be, the rule, blocking is/was allowed down field, not pushing, I know you didn't say it, and again that only became instinctual after 2005, I disagree, it is not team football, there should be zero assistance to forward the progree of the ball carrier any where on the field.

I know we all love watching a scrum pushthe ball carrier forward, but that doesn't make it right.

I'll live with whatever the decisions are, but defenses are so over whelmed now, and this tush push and assisting the ball carrier gives them to much advantage, I've been against all of it for years.

Yoop wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 09:10

and again that only became instinctual after 2005,

No, it has always been an instinctual aspect of the game, i.e. to assist your team mate in gaining yards and scoring points.

Hell, look at the famous Ice Bowl touchdown scored by Bart Starr. Had Kramer gotten stood up, Mercein would have run straight up the backside of Starr. Matter-of-fact, he did only Starr had already crossed the goal line.

It was an all-out push by the offense to get the ball across the goal line...and they did, thankfully without cause for penalty flags to be thrown and forever scar the ending of what is now considered one of the greatest games in NFL history.

The league, in 2005 (I think) recognized the "part-of-the-game" aspect and took away the penalty. Now, the Eagles (and others) have taken advantage of the liberties granted by the rule change and bastardized it into a non-football type play call.

The general non-penalty rule is fine. Fix the bastardization of the rule.

APB wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 10:52

Fix the bastardization of the rule.

Right. This isn't rugby. That is exactly what the tush push play is.

Honestly, I'm fine with the tush push existing or with attempts to limit it. I don't want a lot of extra penalties on short yardage plays, though. So I'd rather no change than a bad one.

Sounds like nobody here got what they wanted. The rule continues unchanged.

YoHoChecko wrote: ↑

21 May 2025 11:07

I don't want a lot of extra penalties on short yardage plays, though. So I'd rather no change than a bad one.

Same.

I'd rather no change than the version the Packers submitted for vote consideration.