Call Me Crazy, but....

[Pugger]

Who would you all rather have, Romeo Doubs or Gabe Davis?

A healthy Doubs, no question. Heck, I had to look up who this Davis guy was.

[Acrobat]

Who would you all rather have, Romeo Doubs or Gabe Davis?

A healthy Doubs, no question. Heck, I had to look up who this Davis guy was.

Really? He had a could really good years for the Bills and is a really good run blocker. Just had some injuries last year.

Personally I'd rather have Gabe because Doubs has the concussion issue and Davis has had a slightly better career up to now.

[Pugger]

Who would you all rather have, Romeo Doubs or Gabe Davis?

A healthy Doubs, no question. Heck, I had to look up who this Davis guy was.

Really? He had a could really good years for the Bills and is a really good run blocker. Just had some injuries last year.

Personally I'd rather have Gabe because Doubs has the concussion issue and Davis has had a slightly better career up to now.

Notice I said " healthy". I think Doubs has all the tools to be a really good WR in this league but for his concussion issue.

[go pak go]

Well according to over the cap, there are 4 right tackles making 20+M/year and 11 left tackles making the same.

So until those numbers balance, In going to factually assert that left tackles remain the most valuable position on the OL.

But let's look at the Packers. Cleary Tom is the best player on our Oline and has been for a couple years and yet we opted to put a combination of Yosh Nijman and Rasheed Walker at LT and Tom at RT the last 2 years.

Do you think the Packers place a certain value of sides at the tackle position? Because if they did wouldn't they want to flip Tom and Walker?

Of course this could also be circumstance as Tom was playing to elite level in 2023 and Walker stayed at LT because he was ascending as a LT in 2023 (before the fall in play in 2024)

[YoHoChecko]

Well according to over the cap, there are 4 right tackles making 20+M/year and 11 left tackles making the same.

So until those numbers balance, In going to factually assert that left tackles remain the most valuable position on the OL.

But let's look at the Packers. Cleary Tom is the best player on our Oline and has been for a couple years and yet we opted to put a combination of Yosh Nijman and Rasheed Walker at LT and Tom at RT the last 2 years.

Do you think the Packers place a certain value of sides at the tackle position? Because if they did wouldn't they want to flip Tom and Walker?

Of course this could also be circumstance as Tom was playing to elite level in 2023 and Walker stayed at LT because he was ascending as a LT in 2023 (before the fall in play in 2024)

I think they put value on consistency and are loathe to make those changes once established. Tom deserved a starting tackle job early in his career and Bakhtiari was assumed to be back and healthy at LT. So it wasn't open. We had an all pro level guy there. If we had an established RT there and Tom as a backup when Bakh got injured, Tom would be the starting LT. It's a matter of chance and opportunity so much more often than it is a matter of planning. It takes something specific for them to move a guy, for instance Meyers leaving in free agency and having no starting-caliber C on the roster plus they wanted/liked Banks at G more than they liked the free agent C class, so they made a move.

But we haven't just done a general side switch of starters since the Bulaga-Sitton move under McCarthy; just not something they seem to like to do.

[YoHoChecko]

I will also remind the commenters that the actual basis for this thread is things I don't see happening but believe should. I specifically called them longshots or "hair-brained"

[Labrev]

I believe the term is hare-brained.

[YoHoChecko]

Let's remember Tom's rookie season in Green Bay:

Tom was on the field for 489 snaps, with 295 coming at left tackle, 96 at left guard, 14 at right guard, and 84 at right tackle.

They didn't CHOOSE his spot.

In 2023, there was an open competition at RT while Bakhtiari was the assumed LT starter despite some injury setbacks. Tom beat out Yosh Nijman for the job. Then Bakhtiari played one game, week one, and was reinjured; never played again. By that time, Tom had won the RT job and the LT job was handed to the guys who had been practicing there during Bakhtiari's injury recovery.

[YoHoChecko]

I believe the term is hare-brained.

OHHHH like a rabbit brain. Not like a brain made of human hair instead of fatty tissue. That makes a lot more sense.

[Yoop]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

[YoHoChecko]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

I would like a proven starting-caliber OT on the roster before losing one. Belton and Morgan are just ideas right now. Golden is a much better NFL-ready WR than either of our tackles have shown, in my view.

My "trade Doubs" push isn't because I think we can get something super valuable; it's because I think we can get a pick as good in 2026 as our comp pick for him would be in 2027 and because I don't think he moves the needle at all on offense and he's not in the long-term plans.

[go pak go]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

Agreed. He would be in demand but I veheemently oppose trading him. He is a fantastic swing tackle option and depth is so important.

Additionally, Walker is likely going to get us a 4th round comp pick in 2027 unless we sign a ton of outside FAs this offseason. I just don't see the value in trading Walker this year. Let him play out his deal. Make his money next year and we get our comp pick.

I am on board to trade Doubs at the deadline because we have too much depth at WR already and don't have the immediate need. Also have the potential to get more via a trade than a comp pick.

[Yoop]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

I would like a proven starting-caliber OT on the roster before losing one. Belton and Morgan are just ideas right now. Golden is a much better NFL-ready WR than either of our tackles have shown, in my view.

My "trade Doubs" push isn't because I think we can get something super valuable; it's because I think we can get a pick as good in 2026 as our comp pick for him would be in 2027 and because I don't think he moves the needle at all on offense and he's not in the long-term plans.

we have to move WAlker in order to swing Tom to LT, or it wont happen, specially if I'am right that Walker is left side only, having a LT backup only doesn't jive with how we work our OL, and I trust both Morgan and Belton to at minimum adequate at RT

I want to get something for WAlker besides just a comp pick, IMO he's better than just a average LT, very good in both Techs, Doubs IMO wont have near the draw of a good LT?????

[go pak go]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

I would like a proven starting-caliber OT on the roster before losing one. Belton and Morgan are just ideas right now. Golden is a much better NFL-ready WR than either of our tackles have shown, in my view.

My "trade Doubs" push isn't because I think we can get something super valuable; it's because I think we can get a pick as good in 2026 as our comp pick for him would be in 2027 and because I don't think he moves the needle at all on offense and he's not in the long-term plans.

we have to move WAlker in order to swing Tom to LT, or it wont happen, specially if I'am right that Walker is left side only, having a LT backup only doesn't jive with how we work our OL, and I trust both Morgan and Belton to at minimum adequate at RT

I want to get something for WAlker besides just a comp pick, IMO he's better than just a average LT, very good in both Techs, Doubs IMO wont have near the draw of a good LT?????

Stop complaining about lack of depth in the season and then looking at the first opportunity to trade away a high level backup/low level starter in the offseason.

No reason to trade Walker. You need 7 competent Olinemen. 3 Tackles. 4 Interior. We actually have that in 2025 with likely additinal versatility. KEEP IT.

[Yoop]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

Agreed. He would be in demand but I veheemently oppose trading him. He is a fantastic swing tackle option and depth is so important.

Additionally, Walker is likely going to get us a 4th round comp pick in 2027 unless we sign a ton of outside FAs this offseason. I just don't see the value in trading Walker this year. Let him play out his deal. Make his money next year and we get our comp pick.

I am on board to trade Doubs at the deadline because we have too much depth at WR already and don't have the immediate need. Also have the potential to get more via a trade than a comp pick.

where has WAlker played for us besides LT? never heard he was considered a swing tackle, and we have 2 first round picks that have that experience, Morgan has had a offseason to build up and learn, and Belton seems walk on ready at tackle, WAlker now seems a luxury

[Yoop]

I would like a proven starting-caliber OT on the roster before losing one. Belton and Morgan are just ideas right now. Golden is a much better NFL-ready WR than either of our tackles have shown, in my view.

My "trade Doubs" push isn't because I think we can get something super valuable; it's because I think we can get a pick as good in 2026 as our comp pick for him would be in 2027 and because I don't think he moves the needle at all on offense and he's not in the long-term plans.

we have to move WAlker in order to swing Tom to LT, or it wont happen, specially if I'am right that Walker is left side only, having a LT backup only doesn't jive with how we work our OL, and I trust both Morgan and Belton to at minimum adequate at RT

I want to get something for WAlker besides just a comp pick, IMO he's better than just a average LT, very good in both Techs, Doubs IMO wont have near the draw of a good LT?????

Stop complaining about lack of depth in the season and then looking at the first opportunity to trade away a high level backup/low level starter in the offseason.

No reason to trade Walker. You need 7 competent Olinemen. 3 Tackles. 4 Interior. We actually have that in 2025 with likely additinal versatility. KEEP IT.

who complained about depth? we now have 4 tackles, unless you consider one of those 4 ag/c then one or even two of those tackles will ride pine, that's reality, trading Walker for a 2nd rounder or a CB seems logical

[go pak go]

if we are to trade a player, to me the biggest draw would be Rashad WAlker, he's probably a LT only, and that position is still a need position for some teams, our two players on the line that took a dip, Myers obviously, and Jenkins slightly

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/packers- ... nsive-line

we had the number 6th ranked OL in the league, we had consistency issues early, but kept improving during the season

Agreed. He would be in demand but I veheemently oppose trading him. He is a fantastic swing tackle option and depth is so important.

Additionally, Walker is likely going to get us a 4th round comp pick in 2027 unless we sign a ton of outside FAs this offseason. I just don't see the value in trading Walker this year. Let him play out his deal. Make his money next year and we get our comp pick.

I am on board to trade Doubs at the deadline because we have too much depth at WR already and don't have the immediate need. Also have the potential to get more via a trade than a comp pick.

where has WAlker played for us besides LT? never heard he was considered a swing tackle, and we have 2 first round picks that have that experience, Morgan has had a offseason to build up and learn, and Belton seems walk on ready at tackle, WAlker now seems a luxury

You need 7 competent Olinemen.

You are proposing 6 Olinemen. Not about that at all. Even if Walker is Left Side only, you can still utilize that as depth as long as you have other players who can be versatile.

Example: Morgan/Belton could go RT if necessary and if Morgan goes RT then you need a LT (Walker)

If you have two people out...your Belton as the 6th guy doesn't hold weight because you need 7 guys. We needed depth on our Oline last year in the playoffs and it was frankly a disaster.

I do not understand the obsession of getting rid of good players and depth. Particularly coming from someone who likes to predominantly blame the bottom 40 of the Game Day roster compared to the top. You are not practicing what you are preaching.

[YoHoChecko]

who complained about depth? we now have 4 tackles, unless you consider one of those 4 ag/c then one or even two of those tackles will ride pine, that's reality, trading Walker for a 2nd rounder or a CB seems logical

Yeah, I'm just not sure yet if we have 4 tackles or 2 tackles. Counting on Belton as a rookie as a starting-caliber OT feels very risky to me. Even as a big fan. I want him as a RG/RT depth piece this year--which we very likely WILL need. Last year we were phenomenally lucky with OL starter injuries.... until we weren't.

[NCF]

Well according to over the cap, there are 4 right tackles making 20+M/year and 11 left tackles making the same.

So until those numbers balance, In going to factually assert that left tackles remain the most valuable position on the OL.

I am not saying you are wrong, but if we take those 15 players and average by position, RT's are averaging $13.5M higher Total Value, $2.7M higher Per Year Value, and $21M higher Total Guaranteed value compared to LT's. Wirfs and Sewell have been the big contracts of note, recently, with Darrisaw in there, as well.

What if we set the bar at $10M/year?

RT's have 15 players and LT's 20. RT's still get the bigger contracts by almost $9M in Total Value, but Average Per Year is nearly identical (slightly higher for LT), and RT's still getting more Guaranteed Money by nearly $7M per contract.

My take is that LT is the historically more important position, but we have very recently seen teams buck that trend and investment significantly more on RT's than they had previously. The grand majority of these players are home grown, too. Very few FA deals at the top involving OT's finding new teams. I think the gap is closing faster than you may want to admit.

[YoHoChecko]

I'm not denying that the gap is shrinking. I'm just saying it still exists.

What has gone away completely is that it used to be LTs had to be pass protectors and RTs were more run-oriented. And you could get away with a mediocre RT more so than a left. Now you for sure need two good pass-protecting Tackles. That has been a major shift. And the adjustment to that has been more interior rush. And the adjustment to that has been now Guards make $20M.

It's all change all the time. I'm not unaware of shifts. I'm just saying there's still plenty of benefit to having your best, most reliable OL be the guy at LT. And there's still a good amount of evidence of that being the case, even if some coaches and scouts have stopped caring about it.