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I will side with YoHo on the reasons to do this deal from the Packers standpoint, but I also don't believe Watson and his agent will accept the type of deal that the Packers would be offering (and should be offering, which is more to your point).
Yeah. The Packers are pretty adamant on 4-year deals and I can't imagine Watson doing that right now. Putting the guarantees up near/at the 35-40% of contract value that they are willing to offer is the only incentive. I think Watson is more likely to bet on himself than sign a 4-year deal (3-year extension). A much more likely outcome would be a 1-year prove-it incentive-laden extension that gives him a chance for a full season in a familiar offense before hitting free agency. But that's not a hair-brained outlier of an idea.
And yes, I think Watson is quite good at football and will only improve if he is able to stay healthy for any stretch of time.
Yeah Watson is a tide riser. Meaning he elevates the entire offense with him simply on the field. We are our best when Watson is going.
Doubs on the other hand I don't believe is a tide riser. Doubs is a producer but his meer presence doesn't mean the offense is better. He just moves the chains but doesn't elevate his other teammates to move the chains.
I want to invest in tide risers and move on from producers to the next producer on a rookie deal. But I do hope Watson and the Packers are serious about what the actual value he is as I agree. The WR market is so inflated that I fear he will be a $20+ million guy in the open market and I have a hard time with that.
Mostly Tom at LT. If you are going to pay him like a top 10 tackle, if not top 5 or 3, get him on the left side.
I still like the Morgan pick if..... he is good, I don't care where he plays. All I care is if he is good. If center, sure. I thought I would have liked him better at LG than RG, but the Banks signing nixes that. But along with Tom at LT, perhaps RT is a future home as well.
We have seen our offense without MVS and Watson, it is just drastically different, even if they aren't the ones catching passes. Maybe Golden can be that same kind of guy, although I don't think that is what we should do with him, but what Watson could do for Golden could be magical.
If we trade Doubs, I'd want it to be for a big pick. Relying so much on rookies, and with Watson out, you'll want a guy like Doubs for Love. Someone he trusts. And If he has another similar year, 800 yards, 8 TD, give or take, he'll be inline for a big contract and probably get us a 4th round comp pick.
So I would want to see 2 things, other WR's stepping up or looking real promising, and Watson's return look clear and well. And maybe if someon dishes out a 3rd, otherwise I think I'd rather just keep him.
Fun post
I really wonder if we'd get much for Doubs if he was traded. One more hit in the head and IMO his career is over. Even that special concussion helmet didn't protect him against the Eagles in the playoffs.
I think your best shot at value is he is does well the first 8 games and trade him at a deadline to a contender who desperately needs a WR.
I will side with YoHo on the reasons to do this deal from the Packers standpoint, but I also don't believe Watson and his agent will accept the type of deal that the Packers would be offering (and should be offering, which is more to your point).
Yeah. The Packers are pretty adamant on 4-year deals and I can't imagine Watson doing that right now. Putting the guarantees up near/at the 35-40% of contract value that they are willing to offer is the only incentive. I think Watson is more likely to bet on himself than sign a 4-year deal (3-year extension). A much more likely outcome would be a 1-year prove-it incentive-laden extension that gives him a chance for a full season in a familiar offense before hitting free agency. But that's not a hair-brained outlier of an idea.
And yes, I think Watson is quite good at football and will only improve if he is able to stay healthy for any stretch of time.
Yeah Watson is a tide riser. Meaning he elevates the entire offense with him simply on the field. We are our best when Watson is going.
Doubs on the other hand I don't believe is a tide riser. Doubs is a producer but his meer presence doesn't mean the offense is better. He just moves the chains but doesn't elevate his other teammates to move the chains.
I want to invest in tide risers and move on from producers to the next producer on a rookie deal. But I do hope Watson and the Packers are serious about what the actual value he is as I agree. The WR market is so inflated that I fear he will be a $20+ million guy in the open market and I have a hard time with that.
now ya want tide raisers , so why did you buck me years back when I wanted some, seriously I complained since 2016 we needed a stud, and you and this whole forum thought just Adams and MVS or Lazzard was all our QB needed to do better than we had in PO games, I never could figure you guys out I kept speaking light heartedly and you beatchs kept insulting me, hurting my fragile feelings
simply put, the gun shoots longer when fully loaded, it's as though we were playing Russian roulette against ourselves, one loaded chamber of live fire, the rest of the chambers with blanks
Yeah. The Packers are pretty adamant on 4-year deals and I can't imagine Watson doing that right now. Putting the guarantees up near/at the 35-40% of contract value that they are willing to offer is the only incentive. I think Watson is more likely to bet on himself than sign a 4-year deal (3-year extension). A much more likely outcome would be a 1-year prove-it incentive-laden extension that gives him a chance for a full season in a familiar offense before hitting free agency. But that's not a hair-brained outlier of an idea.
And yes, I think Watson is quite good at football and will only improve if he is able to stay healthy for any stretch of time.
Yeah Watson is a tide riser. Meaning he elevates the entire offense with him simply on the field. We are our best when Watson is going.
Doubs on the other hand I don't believe is a tide riser. Doubs is a producer but his meer presence doesn't mean the offense is better. He just moves the chains but doesn't elevate his other teammates to move the chains.
I want to invest in tide risers and move on from producers to the next producer on a rookie deal. But I do hope Watson and the Packers are serious about what the actual value he is as I agree. The WR market is so inflated that I fear he will be a $20+ million guy in the open market and I have a hard time with that.
now ya want tide raisers , so why did you buck me years back when I wanted some, seriously I complained since 2016 we needed a stud, and you and this whole forum thought just Adams and MVS or Lazzard was all our QB needed to do better than we had in PO games, I never could figure you guys out I kept speaking light heartedly and you beatchs kept insulting me, hurting my fragile feelings
simply put, the gun shoots longer when fully loaded, it's as though we were playing Russian roulette against ourselves, one loaded chamber of live fire, the rest of the chambers with blanks
I mean usually you have a max potential 3 - 4 tide risers on each side of the ball and 1 tide riser at each position group.
Adams was our WR tide riser. Or was supposed to be. I don't know if he necessarily was or not - don't know if his presence elevated his teammates. Rodgers absolutely had the responsibilty of being a tide riser.
But this is what I have meant is our tide risers or stars didn't rise up to the occasion at the most crucial times. That's why we don't have the rings.
Yeah Watson is a tide riser. Meaning he elevates the entire offense with him simply on the field. We are our best when Watson is going.
Doubs on the other hand I don't believe is a tide riser. Doubs is a producer but his meer presence doesn't mean the offense is better. He just moves the chains but doesn't elevate his other teammates to move the chains.
I want to invest in tide risers and move on from producers to the next producer on a rookie deal. But I do hope Watson and the Packers are serious about what the actual value he is as I agree. The WR market is so inflated that I fear he will be a $20+ million guy in the open market and I have a hard time with that.
now ya want tide raisers , so why did you buck me years back when I wanted some, seriously I complained since 2016 we needed a stud, and you and this whole forum thought just Adams and MVS or Lazzard was all our QB needed to do better than we had in PO games, I never could figure you guys out I kept speaking light heartedly and you beatchs kept insulting me, hurting my fragile feelings
simply put, the gun shoots longer when fully loaded, it's as though we were playing Russian roulette against ourselves, one loaded chamber of live fire, the rest of the chambers with blanks
I mean usually you have a max potential 3 - 4 tide risers on each side of the ball and 1 tide riser at each position group.
Adams was our WR tide riser. Or was supposed to be. I don't know if he necessarily was or not - don't know if his presence elevated his teammates. Rodgers absolutely had the responsibilty of being a tide riser.
But this is what I have meant is our tide risers or stars didn't rise up to the occasion at the most crucial times. That's why we don't have the rings.
since roughly 2014 we had Rodger, Adams, and Bahktiari on offense and Mathews on defense, ya don't need the top 5 defense to win, but ya have to have much better than we had.
as to all this support for the receivers, we had very little quality after Adams, both Nelson and Cobb were over the hill and all the other jags were so inconsistent Rodgers couldn't depend on them ever being in the pre destined pitch point, after a while a QB doesn't even bother to see if there open, easier to just force the ball to Adams, which is how it usually played out.
our best players IMHO were not enough to over come the mistakes and poor play from ST's and defense.
now ya want tide raisers , so why did you buck me years back when I wanted some, seriously I complained since 2016 we needed a stud, and you and this whole forum thought just Adams and MVS or Lazzard was all our QB needed to do better than we had in PO games, I never could figure you guys out I kept speaking light heartedly and you beatchs kept insulting me, hurting my fragile feelings
simply put, the gun shoots longer when fully loaded, it's as though we were playing Russian roulette against ourselves, one loaded chamber of live fire, the rest of the chambers with blanks
I mean usually you have a max potential 3 - 4 tide risers on each side of the ball and 1 tide riser at each position group.
Adams was our WR tide riser. Or was supposed to be. I don't know if he necessarily was or not - don't know if his presence elevated his teammates. Rodgers absolutely had the responsibilty of being a tide riser.
But this is what I have meant is our tide risers or stars didn't rise up to the occasion at the most crucial times. That's why we don't have the rings.
since roughly 2014 we had Rodger, Adams, and Bahktiari on offense and Mathews on defense, ya don't need the top 5 defense to win, but ya have to have much better than we had.
as to all this support for the receivers, we had very little quality after Adams, both Nelson and Cobb were over the hill and all the other jags were so inconsistent Rodgers couldn't depend on them ever being in the pre destined pitch point, after a while a QB doesn't even bother to see if there open, easier to just force the ball to Adams, which is how it usually played out.
our best players IMHO were not enough to over come the mistakes and poor play from ST's and defense.
yoop you have made it very clear you believe it is the bottom 40 of the active game day roster's fault. We know your position. It is abundantly clear.
You believe it is because those boats couldn't rise with the tide. I believe it is more because our tide risers were ineffective compared to other teams at the time we needed them most. I will also concede the bottom 40 made crucial mistakes at the worst time. Namely the STs in 2014 and 2021.
We will always disagree on this issue though at a high level as you can never bring yourself to pin point blame at a specific instance (such as the Lazard interception when Tonyan was wide open on the other hash). You will only concede by saying at a high level "nobody is perfect". We get it. We have heard your position for 10+ years.
Here is a place for me to list some of my most hair-brained, longshot ideas that I actually believe and will stick to.
1. Jordan Morgan Should Move to Center
(If he doesn't win a starting role this season elsewhere) He has short arms and is highly athletic. He has repped there occasionally. We don't have a Jenkins succession plan inside other than Monk. He has not yet proven if he can play a more valuable position (didn't beat out Rhyan at RG; likely won't beat out Walker at LT). He isn't the heavier body type we've been focusing on, but would be a good-sized C. If we don't want to move on from Jenkins, Morgan at RG still makes some sense. But also if Morgan proves a capable C, it gives us back our Jenkins flexibility to play anywhere along the interior.
2. We Should Extend Christian Watson Right Now
Watson's value is low right now. He might rather bet on himself, but entering free agency coming off of a sliver of a year after an ACL leaves him uncertain of the future. Even halfway decent WRs are getting tons of money on the market. Might as well lock up a special skillset when it's cheapest. Give him a 3-year $45M extension which equates to a 4-year $48M deal. Guarantee about 15-18M of it, but nothing past year 2. And make a large portion of his salary the next three years per-game roster bonuses to protect against injury risk. He gets some certainty, we get a likely bargain.
3. We Should Trade Doubs Before the Season
(If Golden flashes at all this summer) I know we won't get much for him, but a mid-round pick would be just dandy. If Golden shows any semblance of being a natural in their first team activities, just go ahead and ship Doubs out now and let Golden take his role. I like to ease rookies into situations but Golden is the most game-ready first-rounder we've taken in recent memory
4. Zach Tom is our Left Tackle of the Future
Y'all have heard this one before, but it ranks as longshot given that the general consensus seems to be don't try to fix what isn't broken. But Tom is our best OL and LT is the most valuable position. He played there in college, so there's no mystery about whether he can play "left-handed," so to speak. I think we should let Rasheed Walker walk in free agency and get a 4th round comp pick for him. I still think Morgan's arms are too short for him to stick at OT (see #1). I think a 2026 line of Tom - Banks - Morgan - ______ - Belton is a good big group. Monk, Williams, and Jennings can compete for the starting RG and interior reserve roles and Glover or Telfort (whichever makes it through this year on the roster) and a draft pick as the OT depth.
1. I am actually confident that Morgan can beat out Walker at LT. I also think the Packers want Morgan to beat Walker which will give him every opporutnity to do so. I see Walker as our swing tackle in 2025 and earning us a 4th round comp selection in the 2027 draft.
2. I would do this deal too. But I don't think the Packers or Watson will do this deal. I still think we extend up to 2 of the 2022/2023 WRs. I don't think Doubs is happening so it will then be 2 of Watson/Reed/Wicks. I think Reed is your safest bet for an extension and Wicks/Watson is your highest upside candidate. I am actually quite bullish on Wicks for 2025. His feet are just too good.
3. Strong believer in letting Doubs accrue stats, get us points and wins and then ship him at the deadline when teams are desperate for a WR. WR and Oline are always the two positions teams over-pay for at the trade deadline.
4. I don't see the large value difference between right and left side. I think that is kind of antiquated thinking. Many defenses have their premier pass rusher line up against the RT now to go against the "lower caliber" player as a response. I think the larger thing is you pay good money for 2 - 3 Olinemen for veteran experience and top ability and draft and turn another 3 - 4 Olinemen to make sure you have 6 - 7 solid players. The added bonus is the Packers are very good at finding versatile players who can play mulitiple spots.
1. I am actually confident that Morgan can beat out Walker at LT. I also think the Packers want Morgan to beat Walker which will give him every opporutnity to do so. I see Walker as our swing tackle in 2025 and earning us a 4th round comp selection in the 2027 draft.
Well of course the Packers WANT the 1st round pick they drafted as the LT of the future to win the job at LT.
I just don't think he can or will because I don't believe he is good enough at playing tackle to be more than an adequate an NFL tackle, just getting by.
Again, happy to be wrong. Maybe he improved while recovering from injury.
4. I don't see the large value difference between right and left side. I think that is kind of antiquated thinking. Many defenses have their premier pass rusher line up against the RT now to go against the "lower caliber" player as a response. I think the larger thing is you pay good money for 2 - 3 Olinemen for veteran experience and top ability and draft and turn another 3 - 4 Olinemen to make sure you have 6 - 7 solid players. The added bonus is the Packers are very good at finding versatile players who can play mulitiple spots.
It's not about who the defense plays where. It's about the handedness of the QB/offense. A right-handed QB and a right-handed offense will always need a more dependable pass protector on the left side because the QB can't look that way as often.
It matters less if you have a QB with elite pocket feel. And it generally matters less than it used to, certainly. But as long as you don't have an ambidextrous QB, it still matters at least a little.
1. I am actually confident that Morgan can beat out Walker at LT. I also think the Packers want Morgan to beat Walker which will give him every opporutnity to do so. I see Walker as our swing tackle in 2025 and earning us a 4th round comp selection in the 2027 draft.
Well of course the Packers WANT the 1st round pick they drafted as the LT of the future to win the job at LT.
I just don't think he can or will because I don't believe he is good enough at playing tackle to be more than an adequate an NFL tackle, just getting by.
Again, happy to be wrong. Maybe he improved while recovering from injury.
If we see second half 2023 Walker in 2025 I do think Morgan will have a tough time beating him out but if we see 2024 Walker in 2025 I think "adequate NFL tackle" is enough to beat Walker.
There was something off on our Oline last year and it showed up big against the tough opponents. I believe WR drops and poor Oline play was the center of our offensive struggles and prevented us from being that true contender.
But yes. I also am not high on Morgan. I hated the pick. Classic example of just take the obvious guy (Cooper DeJean)
There was something off on our Oline last year and it showed up big against the tough opponents.
Right in the middle. The guy no longer here.
I don't know if it related to his running mates, but Jenkins was also playing well below his capabilities last year. I specifically remember him getting his lunch served to him by Lions backups.
Give him a modest deal with a motivational signing bonus. But make much of his projected salary in performance bonuses. His injury history is clearly concerning. So we don't want to bust the piggy bank for him, unless he earns it going forward. That's why you hang the carrot in front of him. And make it a big carrot. If he can stay healthy, he will earn it. And it shows him that we have good faith in him too!
Come on down and try some of our delicious green chili! Best in the world!
4. I don't see the large value difference between right and left side. I think that is kind of antiquated thinking. Many defenses have their premier pass rusher line up against the RT now to go against the "lower caliber" player as a response. I think the larger thing is you pay good money for 2 - 3 Olinemen for veteran experience and top ability and draft and turn another 3 - 4 Olinemen to make sure you have 6 - 7 solid players. The added bonus is the Packers are very good at finding versatile players who can play mulitiple spots.
It's not about who the defense plays where. It's about the handedness of the QB/offense. A right-handed QB and a right-handed offense will always need a more dependable pass protector on the left side because the QB can't look that way as often.
It matters less if you have a QB with elite pocket feel. And it generally matters less than it used to, certainly. But as long as you don't have an ambidextrous QB, it still matters at least a little.
It’s absolutely about where a defender plays. Part of it is because the RT is typically the lesser of the two OTs. The other reason is DCs want the QB seeing the pressure coming. It causes them to panic. They will start looking to avoid the rush instead of looking down the field. If they do throw it’s off time and off balance.
Give him a modest deal with a motivational signing bonus. But make much of his projected salary in performance bonuses. His injury history is clearly concerning. So we don't want to bust the piggy bank for him, unless he earns it going forward. That's why you hang the carrot in front of him. And make it a big carrot. If he can stay healthy, he will earn it. And it shows him that we have good faith in him too!
If Watson's father has any say in it, and it sounds like Pops is relatively influential in his life, I don't see a deal like this happening, like, at all.
It's not about who the defense plays where. It's about the handedness of the QB/offense.
It’s absolutely about where a defender plays. Part of it is because the RT is typically the lesser of the two OTs. The other reason is DCs want the QB seeing the pressure coming. It causes them to panic. They will start looking to avoid the rush instead of looking down the field. If they do throw it’s off time and off balance.
Pressure/pick. Coverage/sack.
Gotta agree with @lupedafiasco on this one.
I think today's offenses/QBs have learned to overcome the "blind spot" disadvantage with more shotgun snaps allowing them to see the rush combined with effective protection calls. DC's have compensated by attacking the weak spot and traditionally that guy is the RT. Get a guy in the QBs face, make him feel pressured, have him throw off-time and allow your defender to win the contested catch.
, so why did you buck me years back when I wanted some, seriously I complained since 2016 we needed a stud, and you and this whole forum thought just Adams and MVS or Lazzard was all our QB needed to do better than we had in PO games, I never could figure you guys out 
I kept speaking light heartedly and you beatchs kept insulting me, hurting my fragile feelings 
