From Lambeau to Lombardi, Holmgren, McCarthy and LaFleur and from Starr to Favre, Rodgers and now Jordan Love we’re talking Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers football. This Packers Forum is the place to talk NFL football and everything Packers. So, pull up a keyboard, make yourself at home and let’s talk some Packers football.
I genuinely love watching this guy run. He finishes like a dude. His vision in tight areas is so fun. I don't think we're a wildcat team because why take Jordan Love off the field, but some of his goal-to-go carries are super impressive how he decides whether to pick his way through the gaps or run through guys or jump over the top.
I think if we had drafted him knowing that our EDGE needs would in fact get filled and if we had a better CB, we'd all be a lot more excited about the possibilities this guy presents. But given the unfilled needs at the time, he felt like a bit of a luxury pick.
This is exactly how I feel. If we don’t go Golden early and took something on the defensive front or a CB I like this a lot more. Right now the way I view Williams is that he is at minimum a WR4 with Golden, Doubs, and Reed and that’s not even including a Watson return and the TE duo/2 back things we do.
Now I will say I can see LaFleur doing something where the 2 back stuff is Williams back there and he can do some orbit stuff or lead block or take a pitch off a fake handoff. There’s a ton of fun concepts you can run with him if he can learn to be sometime of lead blocker for when you do handoff to Jacobs.
I genuinely love watching this guy run. He finishes like a dude. His vision in tight areas is so fun. I don't think we're a wildcat team because why take Jordan Love off the field, but some of his goal-to-go carries are super impressive how he decides whether to pick his way through the gaps or run through guys or jump over the top.
I think if we had drafted him knowing that our EDGE needs would in fact get filled and if we had a better CB, we'd all be a lot more excited about the possibilities this guy presents. But given the unfilled needs at the time, he felt like a bit of a luxury pick.
This is exactly how I feel. If we don’t go Golden early and took something on the defensive front or a CB I like this a lot more. Right now the way I view Williams is that he is at minimum a WR4 with Golden, Doubs, and Reed and that’s not even including a Watson return and the TE duo/2 back things we do.
Now I will say I can see LaFleur doing something where the 2 back stuff is Williams back there and he can do some orbit stuff or lead block or take a pitch off a fake handoff. There’s a ton of fun concepts you can run with him if he can learn to be sometime of lead blocker for when you do handoff to Jacobs.
It may very well be true that Williams starts out as WR4 his rookie year. It’s a good thing his rookie contract is for four years, though. My money says this is Doubs last season with the Packers and as you have repeatedly pointed out, none of the other receivers have shown themselves to be anything special. Williams will most certainly be part of that roster turnover and, hopefully, provide an upgrade.
I heard b*tching for 10 years that this team doesn't invest in WRs and now I am hearing b*tching that a late 3rd round pick is poor value because he will be WR4.
good lord people. are you ever happy? Have you ever smiled?
I heard b*tching for 10 years that this team doesn't invest in WRs and now I am hearing b*tching that a late 3rd round pick is poor value because he will be WR4.
good lord people. are you ever happy? Have you ever smiled?
the 10 year bitchers aren't complaining though, at least not this one, in fact this guy loves both receivers Golden and Williams, I also think people are giving up on Reed, Watson and even Doubs to soon, drops are correctable, we had to many things go wrong last season, and all affected our pass game, I expect a return to late 2023 form.
I heard b*tching for 10 years that this team doesn't invest in WRs and now I am hearing b*tching that a late 3rd round pick is poor value because he will be WR4.
good lord people. are you ever happy? Have you ever smiled?
I complained because we walked Allen Lazard out there as a WR2 and wanted to say we were contending for a championship. That was embarrassing.
We got the WR this year in Golden which is great. I wouldn’t have had a problem with either pick. Together it’s a little overkill to me considering this team desperately needed a CB and pass rush juice. Neither were touched until day 3. But I’m glad we got a 7th OL in the 2nd round who should’ve went way later. Every team need a 7th offensive lineman.
I heard b*tching for 10 years that this team doesn't invest in WRs and now I am hearing b*tching that a late 3rd round pick is poor value because he will be WR4.
good lord people. are you ever happy? Have you ever smiled?
I complained because we walked Allen Lazard out there as a WR2 and wanted to say we were contending for a championship. That was embarrassing.
I don't care what anybody says, this is true. It was BS.
I heard b*tching for 10 years that this team doesn't invest in WRs and now I am hearing b*tching that a late 3rd round pick is poor value because he will be WR4.
good lord people. are you ever happy? Have you ever smiled?
I complained because we walked Allen Lazard out there as a WR2 and wanted to say we were contending for a championship. That was embarrassing.
I don't care what anybody says, this is true. It was BS.
Yes it was, in fact it was QB abuse, We had a Ferrari with bicycle wheels because we refused to give him premium racing tires
Yet, if we hadn't crapped the bed against SF, we most likely win the Super Bowl with ease...with Allen Lazard...and Lazard was not the reason why we lost. In fact, he was wide open on that throw that Rodgers forced to Davante in triple coverage. He hits that throw and we most likely win.
The bigger narrative in both 2020 and 2021 Playoff losses is that Rodgers was without his All Pro LT.
Yet, if we hadn't crapped the bed against SF, we most likely win the Super Bowl with ease...with Allen Lazard...and Lazard was not the reason why we lost. In fact, he was wide open on that throw that Rodgers forced to Davante in triple coverage. He hits that throw and we most likely win.
The bigger narrative in both 2020 and 2021 Playoff losses is that Rodgers was without his All Pro LT.
Not having that All-Pro LT did not cause him to throw into triple-coverage, nor would having him have stopped it. That is a long-running issue with him regardless of what existed on offense at OL, WR, etc.
You have got to make the play when it is there to be made, regardless of who you are playing with. If you throw it and he drops it, then you could say it was his fault. Worse, Rodgers made the exact same error the next year in a win-and-in game. He literally threw it to the one guy he should not have thrown to on that play, literally anyone else would have been better, just like that Favre's final pass with us (every WR other than the one he threw it to was open).
First as tragedy, then as farce, including the excuse-making apologists, who are even more farcical under Rodgers than they were under Favre (and Favre defenders were hardcore).
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Yet, if we hadn't crapped the bed against SF, we most likely win the Super Bowl with ease...with Allen Lazard...and Lazard was not the reason why we lost. In fact, he was wide open on that throw that Rodgers forced to Davante in triple coverage. He hits that throw and we most likely win.
The bigger narrative in both 2020 and 2021 Playoff losses is that Rodgers was without his All Pro LT.
Not having that All-Pro LT did not cause him to throw into triple-coverage, nor would having him have stopped it. That is a long-running issue with him regardless of what existed on offense at OL, WR, etc.
You have got to make the play when it is there to be made, regardless of who you are playing with. If you throw it and he drops it, then you could say it was his fault. Worse, Rodgers made the exact same error the next year in a win-and-in game. He literally threw it to the one guy he should not have thrown to on that play, literally anyone else would have been better, just like that Favre's final pass with us (every WR other than the one he threw it to was open).
First as tragedy, then as farce, including the excuse-making apologists, who are even more farcical under Rodgers than they were under Favre (and Favre defenders were hardcore).
My comment about the LT was transitioning to a bigger picture argument. There were several plays in both games where it was painfully obvious that Rodgers would have had about another second in the pocket.
But I do agree. Rodgers simply did not show up in those big moments and it did not matter whose names were on the backs of the jerseys. He had opportunities and didn't take them.
Lazard was never a preferred #2 WR until MVS was allowed to walk and Adams was traded. Then, he became our de facto #1. That was 2022 and that was bad, but I think the Packers reacted the best they could. NO FIRST ROUND WR's... but they got Watson, the guy many wanted in the 1st-round, took Doubs, and signed Sammy Watkins. Nothing really worked out, but I don't think anyone was fooling themselves that the Lazard, Cobb, Watkins core was going to work. It took a year to turn the page and the lack of any kind of veteran presence held that group back. I do maintain the group was good enough in 20 and 21. Lazard was 5th in targets in 2020 and 3rd in 2021 (but 5th in targets per game). Adams, MVS, Tonyan, and Jones were the featured receivers. Could have used another guy. Definitely could have used a lot in 2022, but Lazard is not why we didn't win championships in 2020 or 2021, no matter how much you want to talk yourselves into it.
As to the WR drafting strategy, complaining then about neglect and now about overkill. I didn't complain about neglect, so it doesn't really apply to me, but still...
I do think the Williams pick is somewhat overkill, but not to a point that I think is bad GM'ing and hurts team building. The Williams pick is not going to cause problems in the WR room where we can't bring back a must-resign guy or can't get enough touches to anyone, even with Golden in the fold now, and that room's performance was not good last year so it's not like some luxury.
Also, "overkill" is a valid draft tactic. Evan Williams at S in R4 was "overkill," we took Bullard in R2 and he was a Day 1 projected starter at S opposite McKinney. Except, Bullard turned out not to be very good at S, and better closer to the LOS as a nickel, so then we put Williams at S. And then Kitan Oladapo at R5 seemed excessive, but now if Williams or McKinney go down with injury, we don't have to move Bullard back to S where he sucks, we can just play Kitan back there. He's probably your first guy up at S now. So, key depth and a ST guy, not bad value in R5 at all.
I actually don't think that was the idea with the Williams pick, even though Gute has employed this tactic before. I think it's just how the board fell. I believe him when he says he wasn't planning to go all-offense Days 1-2. It's not like extra WR help is a tough sell for normie Packer fans, so I don't think it's just GMspeak, there's no need for damage control here to begin with. Only the crank contingent of fans (us) demand some explanation for why no defense was added. We are in a minority.
I agree with @go pak go's mantra: just get good players.
“Most other nations don't allow a terrorist to be their leader.”
“... Yet so many allow their leaders to be terrorists.”—Magneto
Lazard was never a preferred #2 WR until MVS was allowed to walk and Adams was traded. Then, he became our de facto #1. That was 2022 and that was bad, but I think the Packers reacted the best they could. NO FIRST ROUND WR's... but they got Watson, the guy many wanted in the 1st-round, took Doubs, and signed Sammy Watkins. Nothing really worked out, but I don't think anyone was fooling themselves that the Lazard, Cobb, Watkins core was going to work. It took a year to turn the page and the lack of any kind of veteran presence held that group back. I do maintain the group was good enough in 20 and 21. Lazard was 5th in targets in 2020 and 3rd in 2021 (but 5th in targets per game). Adams, MVS, Tonyan, and Jones were the featured receivers. Could have used another guy. Definitely could have used a lot in 2022, but Lazard is not why we didn't win championships in 2020 or 2021, no matter how much you want to talk yourselves into it.
Yep! Easy blame the not so talented WR, yet you had Aaron Jones make 2 huge blunders in both of those losses too. But people don't mention that because he's loved by Packers fans.
I've looked through and the CB market got INCREDIBLY bare just before we picked Savion Williams. The Chiefs jumped up to get Nohl.
The three guys who went the rest of the round--Ransaw, Jaylin Smith, and Stout--were considered 5th rounders by most pre-draft (the Beast for instance had a 4th/5th, a 5th, and a 6th on them). In the 4th round, only ONE CB was taken the whole round. And it was late. Also at least 2 of those 4 CBs I'm mentioning are basically slot-only.
Completely random, but CBS Sports did a PPR Mock Draft 3 days ago and Savion Williams was picked in the 6th round!
over the years CBS has missed on hundreds of players, just like all the draft Guro's and GM's, that's why they say the draft is a crap shoot, Williams has hybrid skills though and was used that way, that most likely lowered his WR ranking, when ya read up on Williams, he is the type player Lafluer has wanted, Williams IMO adds another dimension to our offense
I've looked through and the CB market got INCREDIBLY bare just before we picked Savion Williams. The Chiefs jumped up to get Nohl.
The three guys who went the rest of the round--Ransaw, Jaylin Smith, and Stout--were considered 5th rounders by most pre-draft (the Beast for instance had a 4th/5th, a 5th, and a 6th on them). In the 4th round, only ONE CB was taken the whole round. And it was late. Also at least 2 of those 4 CBs I'm mentioning are basically slot-only.
we probably have a Sammy Shields in the wings and don't even know it.
we are playing hard ball with Alexander, and we didn't use a premium pick on one, Guty would have made a trade, or drafted one, his lack of all that tells me we have a player that's better than any of us think or know about
I've looked through and the CB market got INCREDIBLY bare just before we picked Savion Williams. The Chiefs jumped up to get Nohl.
The three guys who went the rest of the round--Ransaw, Jaylin Smith, and Stout--were considered 5th rounders by most pre-draft (the Beast for instance had a 4th/5th, a 5th, and a 6th on them). In the 4th round, only ONE CB was taken the whole round. And it was late. Also at least 2 of those 4 CBs I'm mentioning are basically slot-only.
we probably have a Sammy Shields in the wings and don't even know it.
we are playing hard ball with Alexander, and we didn't use a premium pick on one, Guty would have made a trade, or drafted one, his lack of all that tells me we have a player that's better than any of us think or know about
It tells me there were other players the Packers valued more when our pick came up.
